Curse

Sieg Sunblade · Oct 25, 2009, 03:08 PM // 15:08

To be honest, the problem with EDA, and the reason I personally agree with a nerf, is because it fuels completely boring matches, which is NOT what Codex needs. Either it should be weighted so that it appears once every 7+ days - similarly to what WoH is at (5/35). Both are incredibly powerful skills in the sealed deck arena. But it is NOT fair that the dervish skills crop up one day in three while other classes have one day in 7.

Plus, it'd be okay to have a bad day in Codex once every week. It'd be like Monday, just on guild wars.

Bottom line: Nerf EDA. Or Functionality change, I don't care. It's not useful enough in 8v8 and is stupid in 4v4.

Bobby2 · Oct 25, 2009, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

Are you sure that skills should be balanced around a 4v4 format with limited skills and even more limited ways to deal with them?

I wouldn't be opposed to the idea of certain skills being designed for 4v4 use. In case of EDA, noone seems to run it in the 8v8 formats anyway, so it couldn't hurt.

Die, mother******, die.

Revelations · Oct 25, 2009, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

Are you sure that skills should be balanced around a 4v4 format with limited skills and even more limited ways to deal with them?

Since NF release I've probably seen this all of about thrice in 8v8, and at least one of those was a randomway. Given that this balance wouldn't therefore even affect 8v8, then yes, I'd be very happy for it to be balanced for 4v4, where it is, and always has been stupidly broke.

icedwhitemocha · Oct 25, 2009, 03:33 PM // 15:33

/signed for nerf

Because PvErs are already coming in with this argument, I'll go ahead and state this: The existence of counters has nothing to do with whether a skill is overpowered or not.

ccReynolds · Oct 25, 2009, 06:32 PM // 18:32

There has been plenty of enchant removal in the codex when dust has been in there. That is a lot more enegry efficient than constantly removing blind.

Master Fuhon · Oct 25, 2009, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by icedwhitemocha

Because PvErs are already coming in with this argument, I'll go ahead and state this: The existence of counters has nothing to do with whether a skill is overpowered or not.

The bolded statement doesn't explain the relation adequately. The non-existence of counters is the primary determinant of overpoweredness. However, existence is not the same as presence. Codex format introduces a randomness element where counters that exist may not be present. This increases the potential for 4v4 to have problems when a previously accessible skill suddenly has a rule in place preventing it's access.

People say it all the time, the game is not balanced for 4v4, it's balanced for 8v8. Unfortunately, something else is true: the game has not been balanced for codex arena, it's been balanced around the acceptance that certain counter skills were mandatory. This can create all sorts of problems around must-counter skills occuring at a high frequency. The game is both not balanced for 4v4 and not balanced for codex arena.

And based on killing being the primary winning objective of the format, there's really nothing that can be done when neither team has access to counters to a defensive skill. 8v8 might just have been the better format for a version of the codex rule set because of split tactics that can be used to settle a stalemate. 4v4 really didn't allow for much flexibility in the first place.

Before supporting the nerfing of EDA, it would be helpful to recognize if there will be more uncounterable defensive skills appearing in builds.

Edit: Fixed my consideration of presence as an element of existence (and not vice versa) in the assessment of the bolded statement.

Xenex Xclame · Oct 25, 2009, 07:38 PM // 19:38

I find it funny when I get called a PVE'r so that means my opinion does not matter, yet when when they support a change, they dont post why.

Even if i was a "PVE'r" does not make my opinion less valuable, and yes having counters does have effect on skills being or not being overpowered,think of any number of hexes in the game,now think of all the hex removal getting delete,now suddenly hexes are overpowered, even simple things like empathy.

Counters ARE part of balance of a skill.

Now just post your opinion but keep any kind of insults or put down to yourself please,it does not help anyone.

As you may be able to see if you took time enough to not try put others down, you could see that I just posted a option that you can use in yesterday's deck, I didnt say that EDA is overpowered or not.

Now on the realy topic,yeah this could use a small tap down,but not just scythes,just make it melee range only AND only add this change to PvP, there's no reaons the PVE version of this skill should be changed.It fun to use on a ranger.

Master Ketsu · Oct 25, 2009, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Yes, EDA should be nerfed.

I used to be against its nerf, but only because its strongest counter ( FF/PS...which should also be nerfed. ) was widely used in every TA team. Ignoring that, EDA is quite OP.

In codex, the chance of a necro getting both FF and PS are very low while the chance of getting EDA is fairly high. IMO codex is really starting to show which individual skills are OP and EDA is one of them.

X Cytherea X · Oct 25, 2009, 08:08 PM // 20:08

EDA will screw codex up every day it appears. much worse if enough feasible counters do not also appear. and even if they did, the games would still be pretty lame.

being a derv skill, making it scythe-only would be a logical fix.

for clarity, SCYTHE-ONLY EBON DUST AURA PLEASE, KTHX.

Arkantos · Oct 25, 2009, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enon

Just out of curiosity - are we going to get these threads every time a certain skill is OP in CA..?

EDA has never exactly been balanced in 4v4/unorganized play, and people have been wanting it nerfed for awhile. It's not used in 8v8, so nerfing it isn't going to effect anything serious. Nothing positive comes out of leaving it alone, and nothing negative comes out of nerfing it. I wouldn't mind seeing it nerfed.

Enon · Oct 25, 2009, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

EDA has never exactly been balanced in 4v4/unorganized play, and people have been wanting it nerfed for awhile.

Still don't see the problem. EDA can easily be countered with Blind or Enchantment removal. Especially the latter one is useful when timed correctly.

Edit: Enchantment removal could've been lacking during CA, but back in TA there was always a CE necro around to strip it before one could cast the cover enchantment. As I said - timing.

Martin Alvito · Oct 25, 2009, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Look, you can run a Corrupt Necro today and EDA is still hacks. The Corrupt Necro is terrible against everything but EDA. So if you take Corrupt, you're killing your pressure to suppress a single skill which may or may not appear on the other team.

By contrast, EDA is excellent against everything that doesn't have a Corrupt and decent even if the enchants are not useful.

The reason Corrupt worked as a counter in TA was that everyone in TA played heavy enchant bars. When Monks have restricted skill sets, there's no guarantee that anything on the opposing team will be carrying enchants. That makes for a wasted elite.

Long story short, something needs to be done about EDA in this format. It's going to spawn 1/3 of the time (see larger gripe thread about this issue), and the simplest solution is probably to just remove it entirely. Second simplest is to make EDA not usable with spears. Then you can at least use Illusion and Water to turn the guy off.

Sieg Sunblade · Oct 25, 2009, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by icedwhitemocha

/signed for nerf

Because PvErs are already coming in with this argument, I'll go ahead and state this: The existence of counters has nothing to do with whether a skill is overpowered or not.

You can always dshot it!

....owait

Well, you can always divert it.

....if you get lucky in the codex.

IT'S HEAPS BALANCED K?

Ravi · Oct 26, 2009, 12:39 AM // 00:39

i dont think EDA is too much of a problem in this format, what ive seen, is that EDA it made its appearance with two very viable enchantments to cover it, TWO DAYS in a row, what we should we focusing on (codex arena-wise), is on the fact that daily skill selection is not appearing to be random at all, think about it, what are the odds we get the same THREE skills out of such huge selection?

we've had about 5 elites that have appeared at least twice in the last 3 days (glimmer, blight, EDA, VoR, its just a flesh wound.)

kazjun · Oct 26, 2009, 02:28 AM // 02:28

/not signed X infinity

If EDA was truly OPed every team in HA/GVG would be running it. They aren't. The only reason EDA seems OPed is because the CA itself is imba. Limiting skills will always mean that there's something that lacks a good counter or just seems that it can't be stopped.

Trying to balance a skill around a limited format would be like saying you should balance skills around how OPed they are in pre-sear. Saying something is imba while not having access to the full set of counter builds and alternatives is not something the game should be considering.

While I'm not totally against changing EDA (or any other skill), I AM totally against balancing for CA reasons. Cause after EDA, they'll be other skills that suddenly become OP in the format. Will they then need to be 'fixed'? Potentially damaging the game, both pvp and pve, for the sake of a 4 man limited skills format is not something I want to see. And I certainly hope its not something the rest of the GW player base would want to see.

Balancing skill for a 4 man format is hard enough (especially when the rest of the game runs for 8), but balancing when you DON'T know what else will be available is close to impossible. You'll just have to grit your teeth and bear it for a day. Thats the price of the format. Or try to increase the number of skills available for each day in the hopes that you can get a counter.

If you truly want to go changing skills for CA, why not petition for a pve,pvp,CA split. That way you can do whatever the hell you want to skills in CA and it won't affect the rest of the game.

Fix the format, not the skills.

Master Ketsu · Oct 26, 2009, 02:36 AM // 02:36

IMO, my nerf to EDA would be:

*ends prematurely if you become enchanted*

Noting that it obviously would not take effect on itself, just make it so that EDA could NOT be covered at all.

Xenex Xclame · Oct 26, 2009, 03:20 AM // 03:20

That would be a pretty hard nerf,I rather take the scythes only choice.
You have to remember to not break it for other gametypes, there is nothing wrong with EDA in 8v8 or PvE,because there are enough enchantment stripping going around.

IronSheik · Oct 26, 2009, 05:07 AM // 05:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenex Xclame

That would be a pretty hard nerf,I rather take the scythes only choice.
You have to remember to not break it for other gametypes, there is nothing wrong with EDA in 8v8 or PvE,because there are enough enchantment stripping going around.

Even harder nerf, No one would use this if only scythes could be used.

Grim Aragorn · Oct 26, 2009, 06:04 AM // 06:04

if ur so upset about EDA, dont run physicals

Revelations · Oct 26, 2009, 06:17 AM // 06:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grim Aragorn

if ur so upset about EDA, dont run physicals

Because everyone likes playing a glorified version of Rock, Paper, Scissors.